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ABF | Modern Day Politics

What I find most disturbing about the current political climate is that the divide between conservatives and liberals is growing. There's no such thing as a civil debate or disagreement anymore. Both sides are guilty of it, but it seems to be more widespread on the left, or maybe it's just because they seem to yell louder. I can disagree with someone on political or religious fronts and not hate them. Quite the contrary. There's only a handful of people on this planet I actually hate, and God calls me not even to hate them, so it's a struggle. But it seems that nowadays if you disagree with someone there's such a level of vitriol and hate toward them, and that's what I don't understand.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
What I find most disturbing about the current political climate is that the divide between conservatives and liberals is growing. There's no such thing as a civil debate or disagreement anymore. Both sides are guilty of it, but it seems to be more widespread on the left, or maybe it's just because they seem to yell louder. I can disagree with someone on political or religious fronts and not hate them. Quite the contrary. There's only a handful of people on this planet I actually hate, and God calls me not even to hate them, so it's a struggle. But it seems that nowadays if you disagree with someone there's such a level of vitriol and hate toward them, and that's what I don't understand.
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I haven't noticed that it's the Trumpsters anywhere as near as much as it is the sore losers. I'm with you, I can discuss it and move on, they want to force their ideals on me and, for the most part, have no logical explanations for their positions. They talk a lot about housing refugees but have none under their own roofs. They cheer on the looters and rioters but don't go there to participate. Then they have the gall to complain when the looters and rioters get arrested for their violations. They talk about 'resisting' yet don't own or know how to shoot a gun. :idunno:
 
Songremainsthesame said:
What I find most disturbing about the current political climate is that the divide between conservatives and liberals is growing. There's no such thing as a civil debate or disagreement anymore. Both sides are guilty of it, but it seems to be more widespread on the left, or maybe it's just because they seem to yell louder. I can disagree with someone on political or religious fronts and not hate them. Quite the contrary. There's only a handful of people on this planet I actually hate, and God calls me not even to hate them, so it's a struggle. But it seems that nowadays if you disagree with someone there's such a level of vitriol and hate toward them, and that's what I don't understand.
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Great post, song. Gone are the days of agreeing to disagree, and then heading to the bar with the guys (or gals) you disagree with.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
What I find most disturbing about the current political climate is that the divide between conservatives and liberals is growing. There's no such thing as a civil debate or disagreement anymore. Both sides are guilty of it, but it seems to be more widespread on the left, or maybe it's just because they seem to yell louder. I can disagree with someone on political or religious fronts and not hate them. Quite the contrary. There's only a handful of people on this planet I actually hate, and God calls me not even to hate them, so it's a struggle. But it seems that nowadays if you disagree with someone there's such a level of vitriol and hate toward them, and that's what I don't understand.
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The Motus Operandi of the Democratic Party politicians and their very vocal and sometimes violent supporters is still the 3 D's.....
Deny - Deflect - Discredit First they deny anything negative that is disclosed about the Party, a Party member or a supporter.
Then if that don't work....they try to deflect the story - quickly move to a different subject to avoid the original subject......Then if THAT don't work, they move to the discredit tactic. Attack the personality, the background, the family, the past history and use any other dirt they can dig up (actual or made up) on the person they are debating or the opposition.
Then if all those well worn tactics don't work.....revert to the tried and tested "Race card", and start accusing those that disagree with what the Democrats are saying as being ⓇⒶⒸⒾⓈⓉ or Homophobic or Sexist or Islamophobic or Xenophobic or a mix of all five.
Be sure to always talk loudly and "talk over" the opposing person to intimidate them and prevent them from expressing their opinion. Welcome to "the freedom of speech" as defined by the Democratic Party members.
 
Where do you get this stuff from? I mean, is there a website to go to? As a long term Democrat, I think I'm missing out on my training......

Of course, if you have all the answers about how us nefarious Democrats think,...... why am I even bothering to post? Apparently, I've been judged, found guilty, and condemned in the Court of Conservative Opinion........,. so I should just shut up, tuck my tail between my legs...(......Of course us Democrats have tails......)......and slink off to some dark corner to contemplate my sins against humanity....... ..Quietly, and with no whimpering......

Sorry, there, little buddy........ Ain't me......I've always been a noisy pain in the posterior,....... on politics, and many many other things.....

As Bro. Songrrmainsthesame said,........A little debate and an open mind,.........Would be a lot healthier for our country.......

Since I'm one of the Devil's Own,..... a Demon Democrat,.........I guess there's no debating me.........I'm too degeneratly dumb,.......... and what I need is instruction on how to think properly.......

I'm glad you've taken it upon yourself to ....... instruct .... me in the proper style of thought........Being a degenerate, I wasn't aware of how...... destructive...... to Democracy I was being,....... by having thoughts of my own.........I'm Sorry!......Those thoughts were surgically implanted in my head by Democratic operatives while I slept!......

.See how fast a learner I am?
 
In one of you previous posts you quoted Ben Franklin's old adage : " Every one is born ignorant, but one must work very hard to remain stupid."

Apparently, both you and Ben Franklin think I'm stupid...........One of you may be wrong......

However, being stupid means that I have to make up my own aphorisms......How about this one?

" You can't argue with Invincible Ignorance."
 
canaryinthemine said:
Where do you get this stuff from? I mean, is there a website to go to? As a long term Democrat, I think I'm missing out on my training......

Of course, if you have all the answers about how us nefarious Democrats think,...... why am I even bothering to post? Apparently, I've been judged, found guilty, and condemned in the Court of Conservative Opinion........,. so I should just shut up, tuck my tail between my legs...(......Of course us Democrats have tails......)......and slink off to some dark corner to contemplate my sins against humanity....... ..Quietly, and with no whimpering......

Sorry, there, little buddy........ Ain't me......I've always been a noisy pain in the posterior,....... on politics, and many many other things.....

As Bro. Songrrmainsthesame said,........A little debate and an open mind,.........Would be a lot healthier for our country.......

Since I'm one of the Devil's Own,..... a Demon Democrat,.........I guess there's no debating me.........I'm too degeneratly dumb,.......... and what I need is instruction on how to think properly.......

I'm glad you've taken it upon yourself to ....... instruct .... me in the proper style of thought........Being a degenerate, I wasn't aware of how...... destructive...... to Democracy I was being,....... by having thoughts of my own.........I'm Sorry!......Those thoughts were surgically implanted in my head by Democratic operatives while I slept!......

.See how fast a learner I am?
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"The problem with closed minded people, is that their mouth is always open" (author unknown)
canaryinthemine said:
By the way,........... it's " modus operandi".........

If you're going to quote dead languages,..... you'd better get your "vox veritas"......
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Yup, you've got your "modus" correct. "scuse the typo.
As for "vox veritas" - tell your Democrat buddies and "fake news" liberal biased "news" media to try it.
I too, was once easily led by the Teamster bosses into believing the Democratic Party was the "savior" of the working class and could do no wrong. After seeing what the party was really all about, I actually started thinking and reasoning for myself instead of letting the Teamster Local TELL ME who to blindly vote for. Once "veritas" became apparent then "veritas vos liberabit" set in and I was able to think on my own and left the Democratic Party when they became way too liberal. I was no longer a "puppet" controlled by the union hall. Perhaps you can "cut the strings" someday, too. Give Eugene a hug, your job depends on it.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Where do you get this stuff from? I mean, is there a website to go to? As a long term Democrat, I think I'm missing out on my training......
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I find a whoooole lot of it on Facebook, you might not go there. The ::shit:: is downright comical and sad at the same time. Those who are like you, songremainsthesame and me are, it seems, in the minority. Henry j is right and there are quite a number of articles and opinions written on the matter. Those of us who supported and continue to support Trump are, fascist, ⓇⒶⒸⒾⓈⓉ, ignorant, hiterlresque, cold hearted and more. We are the scourge of the earth. They discuss and promote 'resistance' yet their resistance is comprised of nothing more than hitting the keyboard. They demand importing and housing mideastern refugees yet have none in their own homes. This whole election has unleashed a strange animal within the losers who thought that they had earned the right to the White House and still can't believe and don't realize that they lost. If you're isolated from it you are missing out, I don't know if you're lucky or unlucky because it's really weird.
 
ABFer said:
I find a whoooole lot of it on Facebook, you might not go there. The :::shit::: is downright comical and sad at the same time. Those who are like you, songremainsthesame and me are, it seems, in the minority. Henry j is right and there are quite a number of articles and opinions written on the matter. Those of us who supported and continue to support Trump are, fascist, ⓇⒶⒸⒾⓈⓉ, ignorant, hiterlresque, cold hearted and more. We are the scourge of the earth. They discuss and promote 'resistance' yet their resistance is comprised of nothing more than hitting the keyboard. They demand importing and housing mideastern refugees yet have none in their own homes. This whole election has unleashed a strange animal within the losers who thought that they had earned the right to the White House and still can't believe and don't realize that they lost. If you're isolated from it you are missing out, I don't know if you're lucky or unlucky because it's really weird.
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Hah! A quote from Hunter S. Thompson...... "When the going gets weird, then the Weird turn pro......"

A good article in this month's Atlantic magazine about the dangers of this "fake news" debacle........

How poisonous it is to First Amendment rights, and how it was used throughout history by various autocrats.
 
I think what we're missing here (and in society) is there are many shades on the political spectrum. Not everybody is flaming red or blazing blue. I'm a conservative, but I don't totally tow the agenda. I know that a portion of it is useful and helpful in our society, but, just like the left, there's a portion of it that is only there to serve itself and the elite agenda. And I think that even though Trump is a non-traditional elected leader, there is a part of his agenda that is self-serving and elite-serving. It remains to be seen how much.

I didn't vote for Trump. Clinton either. Voted 3rd party this time. However, Donald Trump is the President, so he's my President. Just like President Obama was. And in regard to Facebook, the last time I got on it was the day after Inauguration Day, and frankly it's been liberating not seeing all the hard line political BS every day. Good for my mental health too.
 
I don't see how anybody can be straight one party or the other, they both have ideals that I like and dislike, you get the bad with the good. I'm a working man so I should be a Democrat, I like my guns so I should be a Republican, I think abortion isn't my business so I should be a Democrat, I don't think we should be giving money away by the millions and billions when we can't even pay our own bills so I should be a Republican, etc, etc. I believe that we are one country who should look out for our own interests and let others look out for theirs, if we ever get ahead of ourselves and have any left over then we can go help others. I find it impossible to have 'fair' trade with countries who have nothing to offer but cheap labor and industrial standards that...well...have no industrial standards or controls. There isn't much that we need from outside of our own borders and I am something of an isolationist.
 
Some interesting third Party choices this time........ and you weren't alone. As I said, there were roughly 247,000 people in Penna. who voted third Party, ........ and there was only 44,000 votes separating Mrs. Clinton from Mr. Trump......

My opinion? ........Wall Street won this election........Of course, the case could be made that Wall Street would have won with Mrs. Clinton, too,......... but the down ballots would've been much more favorable for working people.

Oh, well,.........We got what we got. The only bright spot I see is that the R'S completely own this election cycle, ......... and apparently the next judicial pick. Try as they might, there will be nobody else to blame. In about two years, when the scales fall from peoples' eyes, and they look around and go: "WTF!"........Big Business is still calling the shots and Ooops! There goes my pension.....I think that the backlash will cripple the Republicans for at least a decade.....

Or not........ They may realize they've promised an awful lot to a lot of awfully angry voters, and if they want to even be viable as a political party four years from now they'd better throw working people a few bones.........

Our first clue will be if Mr. Trump rescinds the Dodd-Frank Act and shuts down the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.......( the ones that caught, and are prosecuting Wells Fargo for their phony account scheme..)...........That would be a complete sop to Wall Street bankers, and a cold, calculated slap in the face to those of us with 401(k)'s and pensions.......

Let's see if Congress does the wise thing and reins in this campaign promise of Mr. Trump's.
 
Turd party will never win and if those who voted turd party would have gone Clinton over Trump they cost themselves there. I don't really need many things out of Trump to pacify me, get a grip on a national budget, fix our healthcare and restore our strength and respect around the world. I'd be tickled silly with just that and anything else would be a bonus. My stock portfolio is up over 4% already this year, if this keeps up it would make it the second year of over 20% returns on my own.:wee:
 
ABFer said:
I find a whoooole lot of it on Facebook, you might not go there. The :::shit::: is downright comical and sad at the same time. Those who are like you, songremainsthesame and me are, it seems, in the minority. Henry j is right and there are quite a number of articles and opinions written on the matter. Those of us who supported and continue to support Trump are, fascist, ⓇⒶⒸⒾⓈⓉ, ignorant, hiterlresque, cold hearted and more. We are the scourge of the earth. They discuss and promote 'resistance' yet their resistance is comprised of nothing more than hitting the keyboard. They demand importing and housing mideastern refugees yet have none in their own homes. This whole election has unleashed a strange animal within the losers who thought that they had earned the right to the White House and still can't believe and don't realize that they lost. If you're isolated from it you are missing out, I don't know if you're lucky or unlucky because it's really weird.
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I don't go on Facebook. I view but don't participate. There are more ignorant trolls than there are real people on Facebook. Too many PeeWee Herman's doing the " I know I am, but what are you?" argument...

No thanks.........If I wanted to argue with an imbecile with an I.Q. of 60,........ there's an old Roadway dispatcher who lives up the end of my street.

All sound and fury....... signifying nothing..
 
canaryinthemine said:
I don't go on Facebook. I view but don't participate. There are more ignorant trolls than there are real people on Facebook. Too many PeeWee Herman's doing the " I know I am, but what are you?" argument..
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Can't argue with that with the few exceptions that I care to hang around with but this election has revealed a while new level of it.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Local #30 in Jeannette , Pa. has their own PAC Fund that we set up so that we could be autonomous from the PA.Conference of Teamsters, and have a better voice in local politics. It's listed on the Pa. Dept of State website, and I am named treasurer.

This is a PAC Fund that can send money to state candidates only. To send money to Federal candidates, we would have to establish a completely separate PAC Fund to do so. However, we can endorse anyone at any level. Congressman Tim Murphy (R) of Pittsburgh is one of our endorsees.

I think you've fallen into the trap that the American Legislative Education Council (ALEC) is trying to promulgate among Union members, that Unions are completely beholden to the Democratic party. They are pushing this agenda because it makes it easier to promote Right to Work laws.

Did you read where I said that a third of our members are registered Republican? It would be a pretty poor PAC Fund indeed if we could not recommend candidates for a third of our members, especially in PA.'s closed primary elections. I don't think we would've lasted 10 years if we only endorsed one Party.

Finally, let me tell you about a young man I interviewed because he wanted Local #30's endorsement. He is a Republican, and a small business owner. In the course of our rather extensive phone conversation, I asked him a theoretical question.........

As a business owner employing about 20 people, if there were tax breaks and incentives to purchase new technology, and through that technology, automate his business to where he could lay off 10 of those 20 people,........Would he do it?

After a good bit of hemming and hawing, he eventually admitted he would.......

Then I asked him if he would feel any sort of responsibility to the people he laid off..... I got an immediate "No!" .........With all the old bromides about how, in a capitalist society, you can be only responsible for yourself, and your own profits.

That, in my opinion, is the difference between Republican and Democrats nowadays. The Democrats will at least mealy-mouth about protecting the "least able" in our society. Whether they actually do anything is ......Debatable.

Economic Darwinism is not sustainable,........ Especially with an exponentially growing population.

The young man did not get our endorsement, but he did win, anyway , and now sits in the Penna. Legislature.
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If a "theoretical" US company in PA refuses to constantly upgrade their technology in order to stay competitive with other companies producing the same product at the lowest cost possible, yet retaining a quality product, that "theoretical" company is doomed to fail. In order to survive, that company may well move offshore (if possible) to survive or will simply close the doors, putting ALL 20 people out of work. By updating equipment, that company can remain competitive and even cut production costs allowing the company to grow and hire even more employees than they previously had. Companies exist to make a profit
Under Obama's regulations, that "theoretical" PA company was also paying a 35% corporate tax on every product that went out the door. Many companies like that DID move to Mexico or some other country to make the same product, then moving that product back into the US with no tax at all. By reducing the 35% corporate tax to 15-20% companies are either stayin in the US or agreeing to come back.
canaryinthemine said:
Local #30 in Jeannette , Pa. has their own PAC Fund that we set up so that we could be autonomous from the PA.Conference of Teamsters, and have a better voice in local politics. It's listed on the Pa. Dept of State website, and I am named treasurer.

This is a PAC Fund that can send money to state candidates only. To send money to Federal candidates, we would have to establish a completely separate PAC Fund to do so. However, we can endorse anyone at any level. Congressman Tim Murphy (R) of Pittsburgh is one of our endorsees.

I think you've fallen into the trap that the American Legislative Education Council (ALEC) is trying to promulgate among Union members, that Unions are completely beholden to the Democratic party. They are pushing this agenda because it makes it easier to promote Right to Work laws.

Did you read where I said that a third of our members are registered Republican? It would be a pretty poor PAC Fund indeed if we could not recommend candidates for a third of our members, especially in PA.'s closed primary elections. I don't think we would've lasted 10 years if we only endorsed one Party.

Finally, let me tell you about a young man I interviewed because he wanted Local #30's endorsement. He is a Republican, and a small business owner. In the course of our rather extensive phone conversation, I asked him a theoretical question.........

As a business owner employing about 20 people, if there were tax breaks and incentives to purchase new technology, and through that technology, automate his business to where he could lay off 10 of those 20 people,........Would he do it?

After a good bit of hemming and hawing, he eventually admitted he would.......

Then I asked him if he would feel any sort of responsibility to the people he laid off..... I got an immediate "No!" .........With all the old bromides about how, in a capitalist society, you can be only responsible for yourself, and your own profits.

That, in my opinion, is the difference between Republican and Democrats nowadays. The Democrats will at least mealy-mouth about protecting the "least able" in our society. Whether they actually do anything is ......Debatable.

Economic Darwinism is not sustainable,........ Especially with an exponentially growing population.

The young man did not get our endorsement, but he did win, anyway , and now sits in the Penna. Legislature.
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A comment on your example of that "young man" and business owner that you so kindly "interviewed". Your reasoning on the honest answer he gave to you on your "theoretical" question is why YOU do not own or run a business and never could. A business exists to make a profit. A business does not exist just to provide a paycheck to it's employees and lose money in the process. With all the taxes, property insurance, liability insurance, regulations and health care costs now being heaped onto businesses (especially small business like you example) owners have to explore every option to stay in business and continue to make a profit. If that means to upgrade production equipment with more automation, then so be it. A company that can no longer make a profit after all the expenses come in are not in business very long. Then all 20 employees in the "theoretical" company are out of a job. If profits go up due to the automation, the company expands, the 10 laid off workers are rehired plus even more due to further expansion. Get it?
Years ago when I went to my terminal mgr to complain about the inability to get any proper sleep in the sleeper berth of our COE , short wheel base tractors while running 2-man non-stop 6 days a week, he told me something I never forgot. He said "Well I understand your discomfort, but we are in the freight business to move freight down the road and to make a profit doing it. We are not in business to simply make our drivers comfortable. If we do not make a profit - the company closes. If the company closes - you and I do not have a job. Nobody said this job was going to be easy" I said, "I see your point". That man was the best TM I ever had. He came up the hard way and always had an "open door policy" and believed in "telling it like it is". After that, I "sucked it up" and ran sleeper teams in those COE sleepers for another 3 years before getting a solo bid. I survived.
 
I understand your argument about "theoretical" companies. Upgrading and automating usually does involve layoffs........And more profit for the owner of that company. I don't know if you've ever heard the old anecdote about when Edsel Ford and Walter Reuther toured a newly re-tooled and automated Ford plant in the '60's.

Supposedly halfway through the tour, Edsel Ford turned to Walter Reuther and said: "Look at all these robots, Walter. I guess you're aware they don't pay Union dues." . .
And Mr.Reuther said: "They don't buy cars, either.."

It's the old argument-ender I have with my boss sometimes... ..."What's more important? People,...... or Business?" I can answer that in one word.......

By the way, I was self-employed for 9 years.........Thank you for the economics lesson on how to run a business,......... but I think I got that one on my own........
 
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